Well, I think Shaxul's point is that promoting reverse Christianity is just as bad as promoting the other kind; and certainly it's an irritation with people thinking that has anything to do with BM.

Quote:

but even if these bands promote theistic satanism, it doesnt mean that they are promoting christianity. its still two separate belief systems regardless of the biblical connection.

Well, the Christians would say the theistic satanism people aren't the same as them, but I can't see a whole lot of difference there, despite a few minor things such as which entity from the bible they are following. It's not really different from xianity except that they change the name of who they are following.

For me, I'd have to say I lump anyone who follows any entity from the bible into the same category as any other person who follows a different entity from the bible. They may change a few words and invert a few symbols, but I really don't think they're any different fundamentally.

Quote:

However, I don't judge people based on what they listen to and call them gay.

Well yes, it is a good point.

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CircleofDestruction.net - printed metal zine.

Not directly related to FM, but regarding the idea of orthodox BM being the same as Christianity, here is a small excerpt from a zine (Funeral March 2) interview with a guy who runs Astrum Argentum, which i feel expresses why these people are morons:

Quote:

Okay, I see. What demands do you have for the bands you promote? I have no demands, this work is in His servitude, witnessing the arising award is enough. But the bands have to have certain vision of Black Metal and the ideology surrounding it, right? Correct, I only work with those who have certain religious beliefs, be it Orthodox Devil Worship, Luciferianism, Dark Germanic Heathenism, or any aspect of alternative Satanism."

Replace the idea of Satan here with God and it's exactly Christianity, It could come from a magazine in which they are interviewing a Xian label/band/person. It is the same thing, and that's why it sucks that such people are in BM.

Therefore, I am going to agree with Shaxul that

theistic satanism = xianity,

and furthermore, that it has no place in black metal. They should fuck off and go play gospel music at the local church instead. imo.

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CircleofDestruction.net - printed metal zine.

Yes Nureintier, you summed everything up! And that's what I said at first : just read what these people have to say, and you can conclude what you want but I still wonder how some readers think it's very clever and intellectual... When I read this I want to laugh (or puke, depending on my mood hehe)...
SPR : As for using pentagrams being religious, come on... This is exactly what people don't understand with this religious trend. Those people DO believe in superior entities and the only Satan for them is the one from the christian bible. So a pentagram is religious for them, yes. But since the very beginning of Black Metal, Satan and satanism is a METAPHORE!!! Can't you see the difference is absolutely huge?! Actually religious satanism and metaphorical satanism are OPPOSED!!! Satan (by the way the name is not so important!!!) is a tool, a symbol that allows you to follow your own path. And it's crazy to know that the religious BM kids deny some historical facts like all the proofs that the "biblical" Satan has been stolen to pagan beliefs in Mesopotamia and North Africa that existed way before gay Jesus Christ. Back to pentagrams, I use them and it is the symbol of my own philosophy, I don't follow any dogma and I don't pretend I am a slave crawling "for Him". One has to use his brain!!!
I like a song title by my friends from THY ANTICHRIST, and I like to quote them all the time when talking about this topic hehe : "Possessed by my own Satan"... Everything is said here I think.

Oh, Shaxul, there is still a thing I wonder about:
on the first DsO albums, the lyrics seems very... "enslaved" also.
Can you enlighten me on this? Because it sure doesn't look metaphorical.

Enslaved?! Not metaphorical?! One has to read between the lines. But as you belong to the ones that think VENOM is not Black Metal, I can't enlighten you so much hahaha...
Compare the 1st and 2nd era and you'll notice the immense gap. Now it's all written like if it was a christian mass, with so much pseudo-intellectual/theological bullshit and words that are almost never used to show they are sooo clever... When we started DEATHSPELL OMEGA it wasn't supposed to be original or avant-garde (makes me puke), and I think it's easy to notice this through my lyrics. Some even said it was "cliché" back then and it's not pejorative at all for me. I prefer cliché in the sense it is "traditional", instead of avant-garde shit that insults the Black Metal roots.
I am pretty tired to explain everything all the time actually... I was not sure if I had to react here at first... I don't regret but once again I think people should use their brain much more and think by themselves.

To close the debate:

Orthodox Black Metal is an elegant oxymoron, an atrocious concept of religious gayness, and it should be burnt as such.

A conclusion by me, and also a simple example for real life practice:

If you pray to the devil for enlightenment, strength, success, health etc etc, you remain the same stupid being!
To obtain all that using your brain and by your own strong will (and that means to avoid and "blaspheme" the religious subhuman stupidity and ways of society), you must be a fucking devil!!!

I couldnt give a flying fuck what religion someone follows when it comes to music except when it comes to black metal, i feel the musician is cheating the music.

angry music should be made my angry individuals, not peace loving xians. at the same time it is also a strong form of music, and being a slave does not equal strength. or strong individuals.